I was lurking on Reddit's 7th Sea page, specifically this thread after reading a comment on this forum thread, and saw this comment from Mike Curry:
[–]7thSea_devMichael Curry ✓ 3 points 2 days ago
I don't think there's anything wrong with giving everyone Student of Combat, but I would advise against only giving it to some character but not others.
I recently started a game where I informed everyone, before we did Hero Creation, that they would all received Duelist Academy for free. The set-up to the game was that they were all recent graduates of a military academy, and part of their training covered being a Duelist.
Some players turned this into a minor "sidetrack" of their character, opting for more of a thief or spy style, while others went full-bore Duelist and even bought a second style at Hero Creation, deciding that they wanted to be the group's "blademaster."
I would treat Student of Combat similarly (if I were doing this now, I'd probably give them all Student of Combat instead of Duelist Academy). And if the character picks up Duelist Academy through a Background, I'd simply give them two Styles instead of one -- the cost would be about the same at that point.
In general, I don't think giving the entire group access to the Dueling system could go wrong. Those that don't want to play Duelists will simply ignore it, or use it very sparingly. Those that want to engage will play it to the hilt (no pun intended).
This started to get the wheels to turn, and now I'm tempted to try something that would tweak the rules a bit in the process. Namely, a way to tweak the game to level the field a bit but not too drastically (such as granting everyone Student of Combat as suggested).
Namely:
1) Everyone knows how to perform the Slash and Parry maneuvers for a single weapon of their choosing. The rules for these maneuvers still apply (cannot be used consecutively).
Learned Duelist will now require Student of Combat or Duelist Academy
2) Student of Combat works exactly as written. The character essentially gains an additional manuever and a later discount to Duelist Academy.
(Note: Perhaps only grant Bash and Feint here?)
3) Duelist Academy remains as written, granting all of the maneuvers as well as the special ability granted by the school.
I know this could drastically change the face of combat, but it does help bridge the gap between Duelists and Non-Duelists, allows non-Duelist villains to have more oomph, and allows all players to feel a bit more confident if they have to take on an opponent on their own.
Anyone have any input here?
"Smilies exist because no one's bothered to create a sarcasm font." --Lost_Heretic
Well, one thing you'll need to be ready for is that combats versus Brute Squads are going to go a whole lot faster; one or two Heroes with access to the Slash Maneuver can make short work of most Brute Squads with only a couple of Raises. An entire party of Heroes that can use Slash are going to be able to take out multiple weaker Brute Squads in a single Round, or whittle down a couple of overly large Brute Squads in the same amount of time.
The other thing you'll need to be ready for is for fights against Villains to generally be less challenging for these Heroes, since they can now easily use Parry to blunt the force of a Villain's attack (especially if it's a Duelist Villain or that Villains also get the same perk as the Heroes of being able to access Slash and Parry) and everyone can now spend a single Raise to inflict a lot more damage than they could otherwise.
The other problem you're going to run into is that players that want to focus on a method of attack other than Weaponry are going to be even further behind the power curve, since they're still stuck at the 1-to-1 ratio of spending Raises to deal damage. Heroes that use firearms have it only slightly better, with the Dramatic Wound that gets inflicted with their attack, but they're also not going to be able to attack nearly as often due to the need to reload (which takes quite a while) as well reasonable limits on how many pistols a person can carry.
It's akin to the issue of an entire party of PCs in FFG Star Wars running around with weapons featuring Breach (namely lightsabers) or autofire (most of which tend to have a very high damage rating). In such games, minion groups tend to get pasted easily since their soak value is easily overwhelmed and the weapons either have such a high damage rating or low crit value that the GM either needs to seriously inflate the minion group's numbers just so that they survive long enough to do something or add a ridiculous amount of minion groups.
Much as Michael did, that sort of change is best reserved for a specific campaign where it's fully intended that the Heroes are all master swordsmen, with the stories of the Three Musketeers being a prime example of each Hero having the Student of Combat Advantage at the very least. And if in such a game you have a player that doesn't want to be a combat badass because it goes completely against their character concept (such as one player wanting to play a non-villainous version of Milady du Winter in a Musketeer-themed game), unless you consider granting them some sort of boon as well, those players who opted not to make combat-savvy Heroes may start feeling resentment or decide to sacrifice their character concept and start investing in Weaponry just so that they're not left out of the "fun."
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These are all valid points to bring up. The concept I mentioned in the OP was just that: a concept inspired by a discussion.
I will also note that I haven't seen much of the differences between Duelists and non-Duelists firsthand as my previous group was basically a party of Duelists (Aldana, Montovani, and Sabat; last player was a Glamour mage who missed most of the games due to work), but from an analytical standpoint, I can see where people have concerns.
Well, one thing you'll need to be ready for is that combats versus Brute Squads are going to go a whole lot faster; one or two Heroes with access to the Slash Maneuver can make short work of most Brute Squads with only a couple of Raises. An entire party of Heroes that can use Slash are going to be able to take out multiple weaker Brute Squads in a single Round, or whittle down a couple of overly large Brute Squads in the same amount of time.
The part here counter to this: in multiple discussions (here and elsewhere), it seems the general consensus is that Brutes are supposed to be nothing more than a "speed bump." While I disagree (I've taken far too many wounds from Brute Squads in the first edition), that seems to be the rule mechanic. I personally still perfer the "1 Raise, 1 Brute" approach, but that's only my humble opinion.
In the end, the mileage for Brutes will vary, and with some of the new advantages on the horizon (as well as the sheer number of Duelists and abilities like Reckless Takedown), Brutes really are becoming a speed bump or a distraction and little else.
The other thing you'll need to be ready for is for fights against Villains to generally be less challenging for these Heroes, since they can now easily use Parry to blunt the force of a Villain's attack (especially if it's a Duelist Villain or that Villains also get the same perk as the Heroes of being able to access Slash and Parry) and everyone can now spend a single Raise to inflict a lot more damage than they could otherwise.
I did specifically state that this idea would give Villains more oomph, so they are getting the same perk. As the usual rules are in place (i.e. cannot repeat manuevers), a trained Duelist still has quite the advantage (Feint/Bash/Riposte). I'm not entirely sure if it'll make fights longer or shorter the more I look at it, though.
The other problem you're going to run into is that players that want to focus on a method of attack other than Weaponry are going to be even further behind the power curve, since they're still stuck at the 1-to-1 ratio of spending Raises to deal damage. Heroes that use firearms have it only slightly better, with the Dramatic Wound that gets inflicted with their attack, but they're also not going to be able to attack nearly as often due to the need to reload (which takes quite a while) as well reasonable limits on how many pistols a person can carry.
I did specify that the players choose a weapon that they would gain this benefit with. Therefore, if a player were to say they wanted to use a bow or throwing knives, would then gain the benefits of Aim instead.
Firearms aren't on the docket here as they are an entire mess to work with in this system (still not 100% certain how I feel about the auto-dramatic or if they should just deal additional damage in an all-in attack; I kind of like the 1 Raise:2 Damage ratio I was considering with my Dishonored hack).
It's akin to the issue of an entire party of PCs in FFG Star Wars running around with weapons featuring Breach (namely lightsabers) or autofire (most of which tend to have a very high damage rating). In such games, minion groups tend to get pasted easily since their soak value is easily overwhelmed and the weapons either have such a high damage rating or low crit value that the GM either needs to seriously inflate the minion group's numbers just so that they survive long enough to do something or add a ridiculous amount of minion groups.
We're already having this issue here with Brutes and Duelists; the only difference here is, in Star Wars, it's a bit of gear that anyone can technically get their hands on. Minions really are the faceless cannon fodder and a threat that needs to be addressed early on, while Brutes are really feeling like background noise.
Perhaps that's why gear plays such a big part in FFG's Star Wars game. . .
Much as Michael did, that sort of change is best reserved for a specific campaign where it's fully intended that the Heroes are all master swordsmen, with the stories of the Three Musketeers being a prime example of each Hero having the Student of Combat Advantage at the very least. And if in such a game you have a player that doesn't want to be a combat badass because it goes completely against their character concept (such as one player wanting to play a non-villainous version of Milady du Winter in a Musketeer-themed game), unless you consider granting them some sort of boon as well, those players who opted not to make combat-savvy Heroes may start feeling resentment or decide to sacrifice their character concept and start investing in Weaponry just so that they're not left out of the "fun."
This is a valid point to address, but at the same time, I seldom run into a group that has a player with ZERO combat skills, especially when the game has so few skills as it stands. This is doubly so in 7th Sea; I've seen ONE character that had refused to purchase any Martial skill outside of Athlete, but they were a pure social character (and a solid RPer) that made it work.
If a player wants to take the pacifist route, then it is something to address, but if the rules are tweaked to not allow them Slash/Parry and they eventually pick up Weaponry, then we are still in the same combat sliding scale that I am addressing in this conversation and the one alluded to in the quoted text.
Most games, you can compensate for weak capabilites with a good weapon (i.e. a character with a skill of 1 and a fully modified lightsaber will often do more damage than someone with a skill of 4 and a cheap Correlian blaster), but in this edition, that's not the case. I'm just trying to add something so no one ever feels "useless" in combat.
"Smilies exist because no one's bothered to create a sarcasm font." --Lost_Heretic