These are essentially the same skill. These skills are all just a form of getting someone to do or giving us something we want.
Brawn + Convince is same as Brawn + Intimidate
Panache + Convince is the same as Panache + Tempt
Wits + Convince is the same as Panache + Convince when haggling or bluffing
This is another problem I find with such a small skill list seeing that I also feel there are skills that are more for the periid that are missing such as animal training or falconry? Also what about engineering and science skills of the time. Granted I am basing this from what we received from the 1st edition, but there a lot of skills from the 1st Edition that need or should be expanded to this 2nd Edition.
Though they can be seen as the same, I disagree at them being so. Convince does not necessarily mean forcing others to do what you want. Intimidate means that if they do not give you what you want, trouble is coming. Tempt means you are offering a reward of some kind (or not but they don't have to know) and convince is simply telling people is a good idea to help you.
For Brawn + Convince. Imagine yourself as a mercenary and you need to show you are in good condition (big muscles), you use brawn + convince so you are hired. I don't think intimidating your future patron is going to work in the same way :)
Using a similar example for Brawn. Using Panache + Convince may help you convince the butler that you know your way much better than anyone else at dusting the painting, without a doubt, while using tempting may grant you access without all the dusting thing and with less guilders in your pocket.
Wits + Convince can be used to say: Look, I served the king (you did) and these firearms are not bad. I know a few of the king's guard (you do) so tell you what, If you give me a discount I can promise I will tell them about this shop so you can be sure you will be richer sooner than later. Whereas Panache + Convince would be something like: Look, I served the queen (There was one.. right?) and I server as a privateer, I also saved the duchess life and I know all about firearms. See? This part of the pistol is not straight! - But sir... it is supossed to be that way! - ... Exactly! So you would be doing a great service to the king if you could give me a discount - Didn't you say the queen? - Not in Ussuran, friend.
That's the way I see it though.
I agree with Carlo Lope, they are completely different skills.
Brawn + Convince is for convincing a warrior tribe that you are a worthy warrior, and they should help you. Brawn + Intimidate is "I'm going to beat you if you don't do what I want".
Panache + Convince is, in my opinion, the "standard" diplmacy roll. Panache + Tempt is bribary.
Wits + Convince is when using logic to get your point across. Panache + Convince is using your natural charisma and "you can trust me, I'm a good person" vibe.
While things may look the same on paper, in play they are going to be used for completely different things. I mean, trying to Intimidate someone who uses force will have more serious Consequences than trying to Tempt (bribe) them or Convince them you're not worth their time.
Excellent! I have a player who dearly loved the idea of a mooch skill. So much so I had considered adding it back into the mix just for our game. I will hereafter direct him to the Tempt skill. Thanks for the keen deconstruction, Sal.
Or we could just copy yours after you make it and make it available? :)
After the con. I am still at work and have about 5 hours of not sleep time before I leave for the con. far too much to do for that.
Speaking of things I need to do after the con. I was puzzling together a set of sheets for my GM screen ( i have a nifty one that lets you slip sheets in) And I can't figure out what the hell they are going to fill a 2nd ed. screen with. At best I can only figure up about 2 and a half sheets of info (and that included some full descriptions) a list of skills, the benefits and penalties for taking dramatic wounds, rule for Pressures, uses for danger and hero points, how to gain hero points, duelist maneuvers, and steps in a sequence.
Beyond that, I got nothing.
Actually, it looks like Mooch was reborn as Inspire Generosity, advantage. Ditto Streetwise. So it's not just a matter of lining up skill to skill.
I have plans for something of a GM Screen. I have all the material set aside, I just need to organize it. Where I'm getting stuck is collecting some idea generators for my GM notebook. Maybe I need to start a new thread for that.
I would love a resource that gives different types of Opportunities and Consequences for a lot of different scenarios. This would help for 'on the fly' scenes that players invariably get into. Something for Villains and their schemes would be nice too.
All of the Arcana and ship rules, including naval combat I guess... but yeah, I don't know either.
I agree that players should have their own info for advantages and sorceries. What you need on the GM screen would be generic, but not easy information, so Duelist maneouvers and Naval battles might well be good options.
Here's my list of what's going into the GM Folio I'm working on: