Hello all.
1st edition veteran here who just got himself into a group for a 2nd edition game and man am I confused.
I skimmed the forums to see if any of the following questions were already answered but, at a quick glance, I could not find any.
QUESTION 1:
About wounds.
Page 181 of the core rulebook states that the 'regular' wounds goes away shortly after the end of a Scene. The exemple even specify that 'If he gets into another sword fight, he starts at zero Wounds on the first tier of his Death Spiral, but all of his Dramatic Wounds are already filled in'.
So, let's say I end a scene with 3 Dramatic wounds and 2 'regular' wounds. After a few moments, those 2 'regular' wounds disapear but I'm still stuck with my 3 Dramatic wounds.
So my question is: if I get into another fight, how many 'regular' wounds do I need to get my 4th Dramatic wound?
Possibility #1: 5 wounds (to fill up only the wounds between my already existing 3 Dramatic wounds and the fourth)
Possibility #2: 20 wounds (to fill up all the wounds INCLUDING the already existing Dramatic wounds up to and including the 4th Dramatic wound)
Possibility #3: 17 wounds (to fill up all the wound up to and including the 4th Dramatic wounds EXCEPT the already existing Dramatic wounds)
If I read the exemple right, it does describe exactly Possibility #3 but that seems too good to be true.
-----------------------
Question 2
About wounds again but this time concerning guns.
The rule about guns seems to be pretty much 'I hit you, no matter what, and you get (at least) a Dramatic wound'.
The question is about what do they mean exactly by 'I get an Dramatic wound'.
Let's say that I currently have 0 Dramatic wounds but 4 'regular' wounds
I get it by a gun for 1 Dramatic wound + 2 'regular' wounds.
Possibility #1: Does it mean that I get a total of 7 (unskipable) 'regular wounds (so since I had already 4 regular wounds, I end up with a total of 11, therefore 2 Dramatic Wounds + 1 regular wound)
Possibility #2: Or did I just got the first 'star' of Dramatic wound filled up and continue to stack up the regular wounds were I was (So I'm now at 1 dramatic wound and 1 regular wound)
-----------------------
Question 3
About Portée magic
How does the portal behave once opened?
Possibility #1 : It closes itself as soon as I get in.
Possibility #2: It closes itself after a certain time and/or once I reach my destination/pulled the item
Possibility #3: It closes whenever I decide to (so I can let it opened forever/until I die). If so, does it mean I can walk back to it later if I find that I can't get out at my marked item?
Possibility #4: It stays there forever
The information section about Blessures SEEMS to imply (at least when it's a Blessure instead of a blooded portal) that the Portal stays there until someone else closes it but what about Portal opened using blood (i.e. the 'heroic way' of opening them).
-------------------
Question 4
About Portée magic again
Rules says I can use a hero point to bring people with me (i.e. I guide them through it).
But can I use the Portal to get rid of something (i.e. I throw a bomb in it before it explode and then closes the portal)?
What about unwilling people, can I shove a bad guy in it and close the Portal?
... yeah, I know, I'm evil but hey....
---------------------------
Question 5
About the Dueliste move 'Riposte'
The description seems to mean that when using this, you get to 'soak' a number of wounds (that the target just did to you) UP TO a number equal to your rank in weaponry AND (at the same time) do that same rank of weaponry wounds TO that target.
This seems pretty straightforward (and overpowered) but then the exemple they give is confusing me.
The 'Fiona' character they use as an exemple is hit by 2 wounds from her ennemy. The exemple states that she's 'spending a Raise to reduce the Wounds she suffers from Bustillo’s attack to zero'.
This would seem to mean that her rank in weaponery is 1 (wow, what a duelist) since her rank needed to be 'boosted' by 1 Raise to soak those 2 wounds.
But then it adds: 'and inflicting three more Wounds on the Villain!'
Where are those 3 Wounds coming from? If she have only 1 Rank of weaponry she sould be doing either just 1 Wounds to the Villain or (and that's an whole other question) 2 if that Raise applies to both Damage mitigation AND Damage done.
But one way or another, it cannot be 3 wounds.
Anyone managed to figure that one out?
--------------------------------
I thank you for any light you can shed on this.
Hello and welcome to the boards!
Answers:
Q1: Possibility 3. This means you'll get +1 Bonus Die to all Risks, Villains gain +2 Bonus Dice against you, and your 10s explode. So yeah, it's pretty cool. Unlike 1e where getting beaten up bad could deny you dice explosions, in this version it's the complete opposite.
Q2: Possibility 2.
Q3 and Q4: Porte hasn't come up in any of my games yet so I'll let someone else chime in here.
Q5: The writing's a bit confusing as-written. Fiona's Weaponry is 3 because that's how much damage she does with both Slash and her counter attack portion of the Riposte.
Fiona is spending a Raise to activate Riposte. Since her Weaponry skill is 3, she reduces the two Wounds to zero. She counter attacks as part of that Riposte and does three Wounds back to the Villain.
Question 2 Correction (By the reading of the rules)
Possibility #3: You take the 2 "Wounds" (Regular) which fills in your 1st Dramatic Wound and 1 more "Wound". Then you take the extra Dramatic Wound from it being a Firearm. Therefore, you are left with 5 Regular Wounds filled in and 2 Dramatic Wounds. You can negate the 2 Wounds (and thus not take that first Dramatic Wound) which would then leave you only taking the Firearms Dramatic Wound, leaving you with 4 Wounds and 1 Dramatic Wound.
I'll take a stab at the Porte questions since everyone else seems to have wrapped up the rest.
Question 3:
Possibility 2 is how I'd play it. It stays open until I withdraw my hand with the pulled item or I emerge from the portal on the other side. Blessures are a special thing, and earn you Corruption for creating them. So I'd treat them as such.
Question 4:
Yes, you could use a portal to get rid of something. I mean, why not? But think about it. The way porte works is you are on one side of a portal and a marked item is on the other side. When you open a portal, you create a bridge. You don't just open a hole into the ether. So if you use a portal to get rid of a bomb, you can expect whatever is on the other side to go all kablewy.
As for shoving someone into a portal, I'd be VERY careful about that. With the most liberal interpretation of the rules, it would cost you a hero point (take someone with you) and earn you a point of corruption (murder!). Now, if your INTENT was to shove someone through the portal to the other side to protect them, I might allow that, though I'd make the other party either take a Resolve Risk or spend a Raise to avoid...consequences, and make the Porte mage spend a raise on top of that Hero Point for the stunt. But if your plan is to just throw someone through a portal and into the great beyond, well...do you remember Judith from the Die Kreuzritter book? Some monsters are of the heroes' own making!
Case in point, I ran a one shot for my library crew last year. They encountered a Blessure on board a derelict ship. Two of the heroes "stuck their heads into it to look around". Now in hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed that. But I did, and had them come back as raging berserkers (insta-villains) that took on the rest of the heroes with freakish strength (one of them started using a cannon as a bludgeoning weapon). After the session I gave a lot of thought to how to handle Porte.
Thank you for your feedback.
As for question 4 tho:
It's a bit cloudy in my memory but I seem to remember that in the 1st edition:
- The 'pull an blooded item out' portals where 'instantenuous' but worked only one-way (I can pull my item, I cannot drop something where it was).
- The 'walk and exit to a blooded item' portals were NOT instantenuous. There was a actual walk, a very short distance compared to the real distance but still a physical walk. I also remember that you (and anyone you brought with you) had to keep your eyes closed for the entire walk, that 'entities' living there would try to induce you into opening your eyes, and if you did, you were done for.
So, theorically, I could drop a bomb in a portal and it would only end up in the 'subspace' world (likely pissing off some horror) but I was mostly wondering if I could just toss it in there or if I had to bring it with me, drop it and then get out.
Well in 1st edition there was a Porte power called Catch (Montaigne sourcebook) that let you open tiny portals to catch things like bullets, thrown knives, bombs, etc.
2nd edition doesn't have this power. Not yet anyway.
I also believe 2nd edition got rid of the "keep your eyes closed" requirement on Porte.
So right now, I'd be cautious about just letting things get dumped in portals. First, it's not a very interesting solution. Second, if you make it too easy, it'll become the mage's go to for everything. Then again, a raise + HP cost is probably about right. I think there's a thread on these forums discussing some Porte updates. Might be worth doing a bit of digging.
So, the more I think about this mess and the more the wounds system looks like that:
'Regular' wounds and Dramatic wounds are related but only in one direction. In other words:
- 5 'regular' wounds = 1 Dramatic wound.
- 1 Dramatic wound DOES NOT equal 5 'regular' wounds.
THEREFORE:
If I'm completely unwounded and suddenly gets a direct Dramatic wound (say, from a gun), I would fill up the first 'Dramatic Wound Star' on my character sheet BUT I would NOT fill up the 4 'regular' wounds PRECEDING this Dramatic wound.
This would mean that my next Dramatic wound is 9 'regular' wounds away (the 4 wounds preceding the first 'star', then the 4 wounds preceding the second 'star' and then finally the second star itself.) That is, unless I get another 'direct' Dramatic wound in the meantime.
This would also mean that it would be possible to get 'helpless' without being hit by a single 'regular' wound. (yay gun system!)
This is the only scenario (I think) that would explain the exemple at page 181 of the core book. This would also pretty much answer answer question #2.
HOWEVER:
Harliquinn (the person who posted the 3rd message) brings an interessing point when he says:
You take the 2 "Wounds" (Regular) which fills in your 1st Dramatic Wound and 1 more "Wound". Then you take the extra Dramatic Wound from it being a Firearm. Therefore, you are left with 5 Regular Wounds filled in and 2 Dramatic Wounds.
This brings us into which ORDER were are supposed to apply the different type of wounds.
So, in my original question, I was using as exemple the following setting:
- I currently have 4 'regular' wounds and no Dramatic wound
- I get hit by a gun for 1 Dramatic wound and 2 'regular' wounds
Haliquinn says that I should first apply the 2 'regular' wounds, therefore 'toping' my first Dramatic wound and THEN apply the Dramatic wound from the attack: resulting at me having 2 Dramatic wounds + 5 'regular' wounds.
However, if I apply the wounds in the opposite order I get a very different result: By applying the Dramatic wound from the gun first, I fill up the first 'star' and THEN add the 2 'regular' wounds after it. So the total is: 1 Dramatic wound + 6 'regular' wounds.
Anyone saw anything in the rules that might point out the order wounds should be applied?
What do you guys think about all this?
If you think Spiral is the way how it is meaned to be, then your way of saying it removes any need of order in firearms. The firearm fills one dramatic star, but you still have the unfilled normal wound stars there. THus in scenario you are without wounds of any kind, you are hit with 2 damage pistol shot, you fill up 2 stars of wounds, and fill the dramatic star. The next dramatic wound has 7 star before it, thus you have to take 7 more wounds to get there.
The filling up the stars in rules indicats the system is meant to be with spiral. Thus you are at beginnig of scene with 3 dramatic wouns, you have to take quite a lot of beating before you get your 4th dramatic wound, as you ahve to fill 4*4 boxes of normal wounds before dramatic wound box is filled. I think this is a good idea as heavily wounded character does not drop down instantly in heroic story.
Original Post Question 1: Possibility #2 is the correct answer. A Hero can withstand 20 Wounds total (25 if they've got Hard to Kill) before they become Helpless.
Original Post Question 2: Side note, but my read is that if you take even a single Wound from a firearm, then you also take a Dramatic Wound. It's more of a personal ruling, but in my games if you manage to avoid taking any amount of damage from a firearm, then you don't suffer the Dramatic Wound as you have essentially "dodged the bullet" by whatever means the Hero (or Villain for that matter) describes themselves doing so.
Original Post Question 3: Given how the Walk ability is described, I'd say the entry created using the method for portails closes very soon after you walk through. Thus the importance of having more than one Major Blooded Object so that you're not as likely to get stuck. Blessures tend to stay open indefinitely, which is why a Hero gets Corruption for creating one, as they've literally created a gaping wound in the fabric of reality.
Original Post Question 4: Nothing doing on "catching" items using Porte, but if you want take a Dramatic Wound to open up a portal just to dispose of something, that's more up to the GM but I'd probably allow it. As for using a portal as a means of assassination by either dragging or pushing someone through, I'd say it's possible but doing so warrants Corruption since it's outright murder against a person that has no means to really protect themselves.
Original Post Question 5: Are you reading from the most recent version? I checked the example in the most recent PDF, and everything tallies up with Fiona having Weaponry 3, as the Bash she used prior to Bustillo's attack drops the damage from 5 Wounds to 2 Wounds, and Fiona then uses Riposte on her turn to negate the rest of the damage and then inflict 3 more Wounds to Bustillo. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/
Thank you for your answers.
Bust as for your reply for question 5:
From the exemple:
but she decides to Riposte instead,
spending a Raise to reduce the Wounds she
suffers from Bustillo’s attack to zero and
inflicting three more Wounds on the Villain!
Since she only have 2 wounds to 'soak', if her Weaponry was 3 then they would be already cancelled and she would not need to spend any raise to reduce it to 0. However, if her weaponry is 1 then she would indeed need to spend 1 raise to reduce the 2 wounds to zero.
But then if her weaponry is 1 why does she do 3 wounds of damage?
A bit more on the Dramatic Wound from a firearm...
I'm in general agreement with Harlequin that you figure out the number of Wounds you would take from the attack (factoring in not only the Raises spent to deal damage but the Raises spent by the target to avoid damage), and once that's figured out and the Wounds applied, then the Dramatic Wound from a firearm gets applied.
So for instance, if a Hero is currently at 4 Wounds and no Dramatic Wounds, and gets shot at with a pistol by a Villian who spends five Raises on damage, for a base damage of 5 Wounds. The Hero only has three Raises to spend, and decides to spend them all to reduce the damage down to 2 Wounds. This puts the Hero at 6 Wounds total, giving them their first Dramatic Wound. However, since the attack was made with a firearm, the Hero also takes an automatic Dramatic Wound, thus marking their second Dramatic Wound. Now, should this same Hero take another four Wounds (let's say from a Brute Squad, employed by the Villain and armed with clubs), then he wouldn't take any further Dramtic Wounds, as his second DW is already filled in, but would instead be at 10 Wounds total.
As I noted earlier, I'm of the opinion that unless the shooter manages to inflict at least one Wound with their attack, then the target doesn't suffer an automatic Dramatic Wound. So as an example, the Villain shoots at our Hero with a pistol, but only spends 2 Raises, dealing 2 Wounds as the base damage. The Hero has 3 Raises, and spends 2 of them to reduce the damage of the attack down to 0 Wounds. At this point, my take is that since the shooter failed to do any damage, then the target doesn't suffer a Dramatic Wound as they've (in this case literally) just dodged a bullet.
Dono's Gaming & Etc Blog
http://jedimorningfire.blogspot.com/
As I noted earlier, I'm of the opinion that unless the shooter manages to inflict at least one Wound with their attack, then the target doesn't suffer an automatic Dramatic Wound.
For the record, I support this interpretation. However, it is a house rule as the rules are explicit in this regard:
Under Firearms:
The target cannot use Raises to negate the Dramatic Wound from a firearm; he might be able to minimize the damage, but he can’t dodge a bullet.
Although this home rule does help mitigate the gun issue brought by the removal of the testing from the game system (I'm not so hot about the 'everything and anything you wanna do is succesful as long as you have enough raises) it also have it's downsides: This pretty much means you can give up firing a gun as yout last or only action since you can't use a raise in that situation.
This is really buged, why din't they just put a huge amount of 'regular' wounds for a gun shot? Yes it does add to realism since you cannot dodge a bullet but, considering that pretty much EVERYTHING else in the fight system spits in the face of realism, why do they worry so much about that specific point?
Anyway...
They didn't just pile on wounds because everybody would play gunslingers.
doing it this way let's you go into Die Hard mode in the next encounter, clear of regular wounds and needing a pile of damage before the next effect hits. This entire system works differently than what you are used to seeing. it is never about trying to beat down the players, it's all about giving them stuff to make them think they are in danger before they win.